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Major RPG let-downs

124

Comments

  • Happy HoboHappy Hobo Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    They weren't exactly cliches and stereotypes back then, now were they?
    Damn those older games! They're just so old-fashioned!
  • MageoftheSandsMageoftheSands Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Muus @ Jan. 07 2004,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Breath of Fire 5:
    I loved part 2 and 4 ?smile.gif ?But part 5 was in my opinion a big disappointment. I expected so much more of this game and found myself not liking it at all in the end ?sad.gif ?(AND the fishing game isn't there anymore)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Maybe Breath of Fire is like Star Trek? ?Only the even ones are good? ?I liked it though. ?Not as good as someothers, but still...
    I liked Suikoden 3. ?I love the battle system. ?I got Suikoden 1 because of it. ?Now, Suikoden 1 I have problems with. ?The story has major plot holes that should have remained with the NES days.

    Final Fantasy X-2: ?Far too many stupid minigames for my taste. ?I never felt like I had to play it. ?The battle and leveling system is just plain boring.

    Arc the Lad: Twilight of Spirits: ?I expected so much more. ?Longer story, more varied battles, more gameplay.
  • King Luca BlightKing Luca Blight Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Okay, I want to hear what you have against Suikoden 1. More than just "it had major plot holes that should have remained in the NES days."
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Happy Hobo @ Feb. 11 2004,12:38)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"They weren't exactly cliches and stereotypes back then, now were they?
    Damn those older games! They're just so old-fashioned![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    True, and I tried to keep that in mind. But in the end, the contrived plotline, boring and undeveloped characters, and horrible gameplay made me want to retch.

    Damn those older games indeed.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • MageoftheSandsMageoftheSands Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (King Luca Blight @ Feb. 11 2004,13:50)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Okay, I want to hear what you have against Suikoden 1. More than just "it had major plot holes that should have remained in the NES days."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Well, it went like this. Main character is fighting Evil Empire. Why? Because a rebel told him it was evil. Very little acts of evil were ever shown. Then characters started to appear our of nowhere. "Hi, I'm so and so, and I'm joining you!" Umm...Okay? I felt that the story just didn't go well. It reminded me of Arc the Lad 1. Seeing has I've played Chrono Trigger, FF6, and The Gold Box, all released before Suikoden (I think) many years before, it was a let down.

    Still, best use of instant death spell. This is the only game where instant death actually works when it would be useful.
  • King Luca BlightKing Luca Blight Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Umm you didn't see any signs of evil from the Scarlet Moon Empire? What was that mirror they used to burn villages? Killing countless people, though no where near my body count. Plus the hero had already seen the empire as evil BEFORE Odessa said it was. "<span class="spoiler">Oh, I guess the death of his friend Ted wasn't evil. And later how Gremio was killed (which led me to kill Millich Oppenmeyer one time.</span>"
  • Daniel36Daniel36 Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Well, they censored most of the crap in FF7 anyways (@#$;% Pizza...) So why still keep the worst of the worst in?

    And if my daughter or son or anybode else ever died, no I would not turn my anger against God. I would pray for a couple of hours asking why, but no, I would not go into a swearing rage and such...

    People here seem awfully pissed off at me for not liking swear words in games.... What the dillio yo?

    Oh and Kefka was a sadistic ass, cruel, but definitly with a sense of humor in his cruelty.... I mean.... He was laughing all the time!
    I never played FF6 in the original version btw... Do enlighten me, with some examples.
  • MageoftheSandsMageoftheSands Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (King Luca Blight @ Feb. 11 2004,15:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Umm you didn't see any signs of evil from the Scarlet Moon Empire? What was that mirror they used to burn villages? Killing countless people, though no where near my body count. Plus the hero had already seen the empire as evil BEFORE Odessa said it was. "<span class="spoiler">Oh, I guess the death of his friend Ted wasn't evil. And later how Gremio was killed (which led me to kill Millich Oppenmeyer one time.</span>"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Sure they burned a village. Was that the Empire, or the characters acting on thier own, "<span class="spoiler">like Luc did in Suikoden 3?</span>" And that was half way through the game, after many fights against the Empire. You can't tell the player that the Empire is evil, than much later tell them why. It just dosen't make sense structurly. It boils down to this. While it might not be true, I felt like this game said this: "The Empire is Evil!" My character: "Well, it must be true. He said so." That's how I interpurated the joining of the rebiallion. Sure, you witness a few corrupt officials, but that isn't a sign of the entire governments code of ethics. It's like assuming the entire United States government is corrupt and evil due to the actions of a single Senator.

    It just dosen't make since in the term of story telling.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daniel36 @ Feb. 11 2004,16:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And if my daughter or son or anybode else ever died, no I would not turn my anger against God. I would pray for a couple of hours asking why, but no, I would not go into a swearing rage and such...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    "Goddamnit" these days is a figure of speech. For example, as you probably guessed, I am an atheist, yet I still say goddamnit. Not because I believe in God, but just because I like the way it sounds. That, and the phrase has been ingrained into my head since I was little.

    Barret's a lot different from you. He's an angry person. For good reason, as Desh explained above. He swears, get over it.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I never played FF6 in the original version btw... Do enlighten me, with some examples.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Here's a list:

    http://www.rpgone.net/ff6/ff6_changes.txt

    And here's the script:

    http://sky_render.tripod.com/ff6script.txt

    Enjoy!

    Edit: You might notice differences between what I said and what the script says. Point being, he's revised the script since I've seen it last.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • MuusMuus Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Was that the Empire, or the characters acting on thier own, "<span class="spoiler">"like Luc did in Suikoden 3?"</span>" [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Ummm ... and even if it was just a character acting on his own, then it sure wasn't just a minor officer. Sure the empire wasn't an army of zombies, but isn't that always the case.
    I mean not nearly every german in the 2. ww was a bad person, but most of them believed the lies of the goverment and supported them ...

    And still there is Ted ...
    Anyway I never felt your way about suikoden 1 because if I remember correctly the hero was a fugitive and therefor hunted by the empire ...
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Muus:

    You recall correctly. McDohl only meets the resistance after the Empire drives him from his home and chases him around for a fair bit.

    Mageofthesands has an...interesting recall of the game.

    Dracos
  • MageoftheSandsMageoftheSands Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Recall of the game? I bought the thing two months after Suikoden 3. The story, and the game, wasn't up to the standerd I expected. Sure what happend to Ted was bad. But that wasn't made the main reason behind McDohl's joining of the rebels.

    Look, I was expecting a slow, gradual realization of the Empire's evil ways, and a tapestry of intrigue. I felt rushed.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    Well, it went like this. Main character is fighting Evil Empire. Why? Because a rebel told him it was evil. Very little acts of evil were ever shown.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sure what happend to Ted was bad.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Riiiiiight. It's been longer for me, but it wasn't that quick. Sure it wasn't a 'tapestry' of intrigue, but I don't recall many(Any) games that really do a tapestry of intrigue.

    Dracos
  • MageoftheSandsMageoftheSands Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Final Fantasy Tactics did a good job of doing it. Once again, I just felt let-down by Suikoden 1. I don't need to defend that.
  • Athena AsamiyaAthena Asamiya New Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Phantasy Star Online
  • ChromotriggerChromotrigger Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Alundra 2: I just loved the first Alundra-game, but the sequel was very bad. I really had high expectations for Alundra 2, but it was nothing like the first one.
    These two games didn't seem to have anything in commen, and thats why I think that Alundra 2 was the biggest RPG let-down in my life. sad.gif

    Saga Frontier 2: I was really looking forward to this game, but I just found it boring and trivial. I know that many will disagree with me, but that was just the way i felt playing it.
    Anyway, I like a lot of the other games in the Saga- series.

    wink.gif confused.gif
  • King Luca BlightKing Luca Blight Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MageoftheSands @ Feb. 12 2004,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Recall of the game? ?I bought the thing two months after Suikoden 3. ?The story, and the game, wasn't up to the standerd I expected. ?Sure what happend to Ted was bad. ?But that wasn't made the main reason behind McDohl's joining of the rebels. ?

    Look, I was expecting a slow, gradual realization of the Empire's evil ways, and a tapestry of intrigue. ?I felt rushed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Actually what happened to Ted WAS a main reason for McDohl joining the rebellion. Since he had to protect the Soul Eater Rune from Windy, who had much power within the Empire, he joined the rebels to fight back.
  • SevenStarSevenStar Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chromotrigger @ Feb. 13 2004,00:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Alundra 2: I just loved the first Alundra-game, but the sequel was very bad. I really had high expectations for Alundra 2, but it was nothing like the first one.
    These two games didn't seem to have anything in commen, and thats why I think that Alundra 2 was the biggest RPG let-down in my life. sad.gif

    Saga Frontier 2: I was really looking forward to this game, but I just found it boring and trivial. I know that many will disagree with me, but that was just the way i felt playing it.
    Anyway, I like a lot of the other games in the Saga- series. ?

    wink.gif confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    saga frontier 2 disapointing! i have to disagree thats a quality title with some nifty music good character building i perticularly like the way you can choose to battle as a group or one on one although its not quite so open as romancing saga 3 it still gives you the choice of what to do next and offers plently of moves and skills the only bad thing was i couldnt beat the fake gustave and his steel knights in the battle of moundtop hill scrambled that egg tho

    heres a question re dq 5
    is the remake gonna use the same system as the orignal as in one button opens a list of commands e.g. search talk? and will you get to see and control all your chatacters in battle or will it remain 1st person??
  • TheDrunkenGamerTheDrunkenGamer Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    I probably already posted. Frankly I don't care either way, I'm too lazy to go through and look for myself.

    So yeah. Final Fantasy Ten ( tounge.gif ) was a big letdown for me. I mean, cool story, but the gameplay was irritating. I dispised the lack of control on the "world map". Battle system was "Meh". Levelling, if you can call it that, was absurd. Visuals were pretty nice. Music was weak, except for a few strong points. The later battles with S"<span class="spoiler">eymou</span>"r were pretty wicked. And the crazy death-metal vocals on the battle with J"<span class="spoiler">ech</span>"t.

    But it was still a let down!
  • AlienaAliena Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"People here seem awfully pissed off at me for not liking swear words in games.... What the dillio yo?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't think it's stupid at all, Daniel, and I think it's poor form for people to ridicule you for stating your opinion on that. It's no less dumb than any other reasons people have given for being disappointed in certain games. Personally, I'm the same way - if a movie or book or whatever has tons of swearwords in it, I find myself really losing interest in it. I don't like profanity and I think excess profanity can detract from something's quality in my eyes. Granted, I didn't really notice it in FF7 - I mean, if there's a little here and there, I just kind of overlook it. But still, I think it's a very valid point that you've made. So there! You've got someone agreeing with you now!

    Anyhow, back to the topic...two games have been let downs for me.

    1. Star Ocean 2 - I was totally pumped about it. I thought it looked great, was excited about the endings, etc., but when I played it...well, I don't know...it was a "return-before-you-finish" type game for me. And I hate returning before I finish.

    2. Unlimited Saga - I looked at who made it and I liked the pretty artwork on the case, but the game was just disinteresting to me.
  • RosewoodRosewood Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Feb. 11 2004,16:43)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE""Goddamnit" these days is a figure of speech. For example, as you probably guessed, I am an atheist, yet I still say goddamnit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm in no way religious, but yet I almost never invoke G-d. ?Certainly not as an "everyday speech" thing. ?I'm superstitious about it, actually.... ?That doesn't stop me from cussing like a sailor with lots of other words though. ?wink.gif

    ANYWAY, biggest disappointments.

    FFX-2: ?The battle system was fun for a while, but the side stories/characters bog down the main plot way too much, especially if you're "working" (and it did end up being work for me) towards the 100% completion.

    FFIV: ?I agree with the poster (was it SoG?) who was disappointed in this one. ?I played it after many PSX and PS2 RPGs, so that may have done its bit. ?The random battles in FFIV got really boring after awhile. ?I hated "<span class="spoiler">"deaths" of Pirom and Porom</span>", and although I found out that that situation is "fixed" later on in the game, I still found it pointlessly cruel at the time it happened.

    I'm sure there are others, but these are the only ones that immediately come to mind.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm in no way religious, but yet I almost never invoke G-d. Certainly not as an "everyday speech" thing. I'm superstitious about it, actually.... That doesn't stop me from cussing like a sailor with lots of other words though.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    See, the difference with me is, I firmly believe that God doesn't exist. In fact, I refer to him as "the invisible man in the sky." So therefore, no superstition for me to be worried about.

    And yes, I was the one who was disappointed in FFIV. In fact, you just reminded me of another reason why I didn't like it.

    "<span class="spoiler">"All those people sacrificed themselves to save me. I won't let their sacrifices be in vain! Oh wait! They're all okay! Nevermind!"</span>"
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Feb. 14 2004,17:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm in no way religious, but yet I almost never invoke G-d. ?Certainly not as an "everyday speech" thing. ?I'm superstitious about it, actually.... ?That doesn't stop me from cussing like a sailor with lots of other words though.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    See, the difference with me is, I firmly believe that God doesn't exist. In fact, I refer to him as "the invisible man in the sky." So therefore, no superstition for me to be worried about.

    And yes, I was the one who was disappointed in FFIV. In fact, you just reminded me of another reason why I didn't like it.

    "<span class="spoiler">"All those people sacrificed themselves to save me. I won't let their sacrifices be in vain! Oh wait! They're all okay! Nevermind!"</span>"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Who is all ok? Interested to see where you are coming from on this one...
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    This editorial explains it quite nicely.

    http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/scar/102700mf.html

    Oh, and it's good to have you back buddy.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • AkumadaAkumada Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Vagrant story, it seemed to take place almost entirely in dungeons with no other characters. It looked like a well constructed game with a great plot (Squaresoft game) but I just couldn't get into it.
  • GrowlanserGrowlanser Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akumada @ Feb. 15 2004,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Vagrant story, it seemed to take place almost entirely in dungeons with no other characters. ?It looked like a well constructed game with a great plot (Squaresoft game) but I just couldn't get into it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yeah, I wished I had played it longer. I played about 1 hour only to realize there was no space on my memory card to save my data. I haven't played again since...
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Feb. 15 2004,06:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"This editorial explains it quite nicely.

    http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/scar/102700mf.html

    Oh, and it's good to have you back buddy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Thank you. ?Good to be back. ?^^ ?Now, let's address a few things regarding FFIV, which I shall defend with every breath in my body...

    I find the author's premise that death=depth to be disturbing. ?The lynch-pin of his entire thesis is that tragedy is all that a game needs to be compelling. ?Indeed, he further INDICTS a lack of tragedy as a detraction from the game's appeal.

    This is obviously a flawed viewpoint. ?First off, there are several elements that contribute to the depth of not only FFIV, but almost every other story told, be it fiction or non. ?Love, betrayal, loss of will, too MUCH will, greed, ambition, compassion, loss, reconciling one's errant actions, etc etc...these things and countless others can make up a great story. ?Indeed, FFIV incorporated all of these elements quite nicely. ?There is a brilliance and bittersweet poignancy to the meeting between Cecil and "<span class="spoiler">Klu Ya</span>" atop Mt. Ordeals...an uncertain presence, but a familiar one, watching in horror as his sons butcher the innocent, begging the one who came to him to put an end to it all...

    There is also a sense of comraderie that also seems lacking in several other titles. ?The team had chemistry, no matter who was in it at the time. ?They all interacted in some way instead of simply sitting back as static characters with only a few trigger phrases to send them on their way.

    Those are just two examples, but I won't go on. ?Point made. ?Now, I want to take the "thesis" presented and trounce on it a bit further. ?Let's say that the author is right, and death does indeed equal depth in literature / the media. ?What about these examples from FFIV:

    1. The genocide of the Village of Mist: no one bothered to resurrect those that died.

    2. ?The Baronian raid of Mysidia: hell, murder sets the TONE for the game right off the bat!

    3. ?Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see Anna donning sword and shield to join the party immediately after being downed by arrows while saving the Spoony Bard.

    4. ?The double suicide of the King and Queen of Eblana was one of the most tear-wrenching scenes in video games.

    Now, I may be wrong, but the inclusion of Hamlet-esque death on a grand scale does not always a plot make. ?Indeed, it seems a bit heavy-handed and like a crutch for weaker minds to fall on...indeed, what easier method of evoking emotion than to include a death scene? ?Call me a snob if you will, but there are other things that matter, in many cases, MORE. ?The aforementioned scene at Mt. Ordeals was, to me, one of the most moving scenes in its representation that I have encountered yet. ?It foreshadowed hope, sorrow, wonder...a brilliant turning-point...and they did it without rivers of blood, too. ("<span class="spoiler">I am sure that some found it frustrating that they couldn't just "fight" the Dark Knight to win. I'll call them adolescents.</span>")

    I find it a bit too macabre to state that death alone makes a game's story great or serious. ?I, for one, was overjoyed to find out that characters that I grew to care about a lot had managed to dodge the bullet. ?People die left and right in real life, in games, movies, TV...is that necessarily so great?

    After all, there is always Silent Hill for when I feel more...grotesque.



  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Oh I don't agree that death has to be included to make a good drama, I'm just saying that the game might have struck me a little had the characters who "died" stayed dead.

    As it is, I felt nothing.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    Um, could it also have been simply an aspect of their character designs? Yang was a classic never say die martial artist. Same with Cid, save he's an engineer. While it would've been more dramatically effective, it wouldn't have fit their character theme at all. They weren't martyrs, didn't act like martyrs, and wouldn't have felt right as such. Could it have been done 'well' as such? Absolutely, but they really didn't deliver those characters as dying characters so much as heroic 'never say die' types.

    Dracos
  • AlienaAliena Member Full Members
    edited February 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Growlanser @ Feb. 15 2004,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yeah, I wished I had played it longer. I played about 1 hour only to realize there was no space on my memory card to save my data. I haven't played again since...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Vagrant Story turned out to be my favorite game. It is kind of confusing at first and very unlike any other RPG I've played (I know they consider it an RPG, but it's kind of not too), but I thought the story, music, everything was just wonderful.
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