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La Pucelle: Tactics - Staff Review

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  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Shift @ June 05 2004,03:07)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Like any "mainstream" people were thinking of buying this game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Way to go with the elitism, buddy. Ever thought about that the companies perhaps want the "mainstream" to start liking their games? If they don't risk the M rating, a larger audience will have access to the game, and they would be able to sell more copies.

    EDIT: And besides, I don't see what the big deal seems to be here. I don't "suffer" because Croix didn't have a ciggarette in his mouth while blasting away demons. I couldn't care less.



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  • FraxFrax Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Solon @ June 04 2004,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Shift @ June 05 2004,03:07)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Like any "mainstream" people were thinking of buying this game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Way to go with the elitism, buddy. Ever thought about that the companies perhaps want the "mainstream" to start liking their games? If they don't risk the M rating, a larger audience will have access to the game, and they would be able to sell more copies.

    EDIT: And besides, I don't see what the big deal seems to be here. I don't "suffer" because Croix didn't have a ciggarette in his mouth while blasting away demons. I couldn't care less.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You've got to remember that the majority of people on gaming dedicated boards are NOT 'mainstream' in any sense of the word. We're a bunch of blithering retards, most of which don't have (or rather, don't appear to have) an education past kindergarden.

    It's not their fault they're morons that can't see past their I'M-RIGHT-AND-YOU'RE-NOT-ism, they really were raised that way. They're just emulating the chumps that raised them instead of using their brains to make their own decisions. Treat them as such, and you'll generally get a more favorable response.

    Just nod your head like you care, then move on. tounge.gif
  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Shift @ June 04 2004,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Castlevania: SOTN getting a T, then Castlevania: LOI for PS2 getting an M rating although it had the EXACT SAME level of violence.

    DOAX volleyball getting an M rating (!) for "nudity". eh.gif WTF?

    Goldeneye got a T rating back in '97, while Halo gets an M rating. Violence: identical.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Actually, this came up in our store last year before xmas. The ESRB has made changes, over time, to better describe what type of violence is in a game.

    There's now a distinction of "realistic violence", and the majority of those will be M. LoI is realistic violence, SotN is violence.

    There's the same situation with Goldeneye vs. Halo - Halo has realistic violence and in a military setting too. That's the difference. Small but important.

    Additionally, DOAX didn't get it for nudity. It got it for mature sexual themes as well as something else...I'll have to check the game again. I've seen very few games that are T with mature sexual themes. You can get away with mild sexual themes or crude humour, though. The Sims: Bustin' Out! has.
  • LewinLewin Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    The text of a review is frequently far more interesting and useful than the number itself. Consequently I generally ignore numbers.

    If you look at the number and don't look at the text, how do you know whether the reviewer is completely insane or not? If I wrote a review that contained nothing other than the words "blah blah blah blah", but attached a number to it, people would still think that the number meant something. <tease> Perhaps I am now resonating with the "americans are blithering idiots" comments from the previous posters. </tease>

    Anyways, a lot of reviewers will also comment about their likings of other similar games. And if I can already see that their tastes don't mesh with mine, then the content of the review holds much less weight. Can't make that kind of judgement by looking at numbers.

    Consequently, rpgamer has my vote if they want to remove all numbers from the reviews. Or maybe make the reviews on a scale of 1-71 so it can't be confused with other people's "9 is an average game" scales.
  • Options
    edited June 2004
    Honnestly the review is well done, but I'm afraid I can't tell the same for the game... I have had so much fun playing Disgaea, even if the story is much deeper in La Pucelle. The battle system is so slooooow, and sometimes the voices actor are not very good. But anyway I think it's a good game, but it's not deserving to be put on the same rank that Disgaea. Thus, I'm a french, and the names are really sucking ^^ You know the name Alouette, that's a french cook; Cullote is what we are wearing under our pants; couscous is an arabic cook...Even if the story takes place in France, I think it's somewhat abusing to put a french word on every name/place.
    I think that's all I have to say :-) See ya!
  • LinkOcarinaManLinkOcarinaMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Bah

    I like this game more than Disgaea. I will never understand the haters.

    laugh.gif
  • Options
    edited June 2004
    I didn't said I hate the game, I just think it doesn't deserved to be better than Disgaea ;-)
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    I do. I hated Disgaea, and I wasn't intending on getting this game at all. But after a good word from Otterland, I decided "Eh, what the hell."

    I haven't regretted it since. La Pucelle is awesome. From the characters I can actually LIKE(Prier = my goddess), to the storyline that's actually enjoyable, to the gameplay, while still not exactly to my tastes, nontheless doesn't make me wanna hurl like Disgaea's did.

    So anyway, good review Paul.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • XadionXadion Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Good review, I would have givin it a 3..and RPGamer should go back to 10- the higher the number the better imo because it allows a more percise measurement...and along with the bandwagon- FF7 is T, and exactly how many characters smoked in that? k, thought so...okay...peace
    Bewbs...heh...heh
  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Xadion @ June 05 2004,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"FF7 is T, and exactly how many characters smoked in that? k, thought so...okay...peace[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    They aren't saying that every "T" rated game has smoking in it. What has been said is that games that normally would have been rated lower got higher ESRB ratings due to smoking, alcohol, etc. not the other way around.
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  • XadionXadion Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    You miss my point, I could throw at you like five quotes from previous posts in this topic that basicly say - if a game is T w/o smokeing it would be M with it- I just gave an example of FFVII that with or with out the smokeing would have gotten a rateing of teen. There are many others, and this topic of game rateing semantics is meaningless to me, I was just giving an example contraty to other examples and "insider info" on 'their' game creation experiance- my personal feelings on the matter are nither here nor there.
    Bewbs...heh...heh
  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    The thing is that your post was based on nothing. How do you know that FF7 would have been "T" even had it included smoking or alcohol? You can't because the game didn't include it and therefore you can't say that it would be rated "T" even if it had those things included. Maybe it would have been rated "M"....... you can't know stuff that didn't happen.
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  • TheTykeTheTyke Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Thinking I generally grew to disregard ESBR ratings when Lunar: Silver Star Story and FFIX came out both with a Teen rating.

    Lunar had all kinds of suggestive jokes and even excerpts from "books" that were very not-T....

    I can only recall maybe one tasteless thing in FF9.

    I do think there should be a way of advising parents (because some actually care, God bless them), but ESRB seems to fail woefully. Not sure what the solution is, except if somehow they could be more detailed, as to what's actually in the game.
  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    See, the problem with the ESRB is the way they do their rating. Each game company sends a video of the most "extreme" portions of gameplay/movies/whatever and then they take a group of everyday people(even some that aren't gamers) and have them rate what they see. Now there are no rules on that though, if you dislike a certain genre then you can rate it however you feel and they want to allow personal feelings when they have these people rating games for some reason. Then they get into a group and talk about what they saw and they agree on what is a good rating for the game.

    My problem with all this is that while personal feelings are something that should be had by everyone, when it comes to rating games, i want an unbiased opinion. Also, after a game gets a rating, the game company can decide to tone down certain portions to keep the rating where they want it(normally in the "T" range for RPGs). Also, these people are rating a game based on movie footage alone. Even if it includes gameplay footage...... the people aren't really getting a "feel" for the game but rather a "feel" of what the developers want them to see.

    Anyway, i dislike the overall way that the ESRB is done but if it works then it works....... I just hate that some good games have to get edited due to piss poor reasons.
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  • XadionXadion Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madhtr @ June 05 2004,09:18)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The thing is that your post was based on nothing. How do you know that FF7 would have been "T" even had it included smoking or alcohol? You can't because the game didn't include it and therefore you can't say that it would be rated "T" even if it had those things included. Maybe it would have been rated "M"....... you can't know stuff that didn't happen.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    My foundation is logic, and use of the rateing system.

    Final Fantasy Vll Sony Computer Entertainment Playstation Teen (13+) Comic Mischief,Mild Animated Violence,Mild Language 7/30/1997

    With or without the tabbaco it would be teen, games with less like:

    Tactics Ogre Atlus Software Playstation Teen (13+) Mild Animated Violence,Mild Language 10/17/1997

    also get a teen, as would have ffvii with or without the tabbao use.


    La Pucelle: TACTICS Mastiff LLC Playstation 2 Teen (13+) Blood,Crude Humor,Mature Sexual Themes,Mild Violence 4/29/2004

    What I am saying is- to the many pepole that have said to the extent of 'tobacco use is an automatic raiting up' are wrong- the best argument for this topic would be that La Pucelle was at such a border line of the top of the teen rateing that even a little thing like tobacco use could push it over... as we can see above, there is a big differance in La Pucelle and tactics oger in terms of why they are both TEEN.

    I could sit here all day if you want, but I dont realy care to stay on this tangent- my base for argueing is to the pepole that have said tobacco use is an automatic upping of the rateing- useing logic and reason, with my small example listed above states that their reasoning is wrong- that is all...

    Good day sir.
    Bewbs...heh...heh
  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Xadion @ June 05 2004,12:43)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"my base for argueing is to the pepole that have said tobacco use is an automatic upping of the rateing- useing logic and reason, with my small example listed above states that their reasoning is wrong- that is all...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I see what you're saying and agree with you for the most part but you can't assume that smoking isn't a large portion of why a game gets rated how it does. Considering that two games which are given the same rating details could be rated differently due to different rating standards by the people rating each game, you can't assume that some people(the ones rating said game) don't take a large issue over smoking being in a videogame.
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  • XadionXadion Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    True, I assume- perhaps wrong that all rateing would be done on a balanced level based on 100% game content and no fickel feelings of slot a board and then slot b on another game- with that I must concur that the rateings are vastly variable and not accurate...mostly seeing as they do have a section of reasoning that is tabbaco use- and I have yet to find a game rateing with that as reason...but I can always look more :-)

    G'day
    Bewbs...heh...heh
  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Taken directly from the ESRB site:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Harvest Moon: Save the Homeland ?Natsume Inc. ?Playstation 2 ?Everyone ?Use of Tobacco & Alcohol ?9/8/2001[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    While kinda disproving the fact that it's a deciding factor between ratings, this still doesn't prove that it hasn't happened with other games.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE" Slots II ?Masque Publishing ?MAC CD-ROM,PC CD-ROM ?Teen (13+) ?Gambling,Use of Tobacco & Alcohol ?9/29/2001[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Obviously smoking and alcohol don't mix with gambling well though.

    I did notice that most games that had "Use of Tobacco & Alcohol" that had a "T" rating also had "violence" as a descriptor.

    P.S. I find it kinda strange that Namco's listing of Tales of Symphonia on the <span style='color:blue'>ESRB site</span> suggests other platforms:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Tales of Symphonia ?Namco Hometek ?Gamecube,PC CD-ROM,Playstation 2,XBOX ?Teen (13+) ?Fantasy Violence,Language,Suggestive Themes ?5/14/2004[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    It's probably just a screwup on the site's fault but i just found it strange considering that Namco said that the game was only going to be released in North America for the Gamecube..... Guess we'll find out.



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  • andytheladandythelad Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rico @ June 04 2004,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"... Do you read, Red Shift?

    Without the tobacco use, Shenmue could have quite possibly been rated E. ?La Pucelle Tactics was likely already headed for a T rating, and the retention of smoking would up it to a M. ?I worked for a company which chose to make an almost identical edit to keep their game at the lower rating. ?It may not be how you think things work, or how you think things should work, but having smoking in a game is an easy way to bump the rating up. ?Foggers, anyone?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Shenmue would never be rated E
    And Symphonia is comming out on the PS2, with added cut scenes



  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (andythelad @ June 06 2004,02:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And Symphonia is comming out on the PS2, with added cut scenes[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, but Namco has said that they have no plans to release the game outside of Japan though.
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  • Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Wow. ?You?ve got to love the fervor created in a First Amendment debate.? My personal issues with Mastiff edit's aside, I can see why they did them (and especially after hearing the comments about what elements specifically effect an ESRB rating.) ?Mastiff doesn't have the deep pockets of a certain company who showed us how "<span class="spoiler">Fei, Chu-Chu, and friends were crucified in a supposedly blasphemous yet hilarious scene in Xenogears.</span>"

    Believe it or not, Croix not smoking a phatty wasn't the ultimate highlight/lowlight of the game's edits. ?By far, it was the scene "<span class="spoiler">in Chapter 9 where Prier is quite obviously crucified, yet it's noticeable how she's...levitating in mid-air.</span>" ?That scene nearly made me spit out my drink, as it was so blatant.

    Mastiff did come clean on their reasoning for making the edits in this interview with 1up.com. ?Agree or disagree with them if you may, but you have to give them some credit for explaining their case before the game's NA release.

    I can think of plenty of other religious inferences in video gaming history (even though La Pucelle's material is mild compared to previous efforts.) ?For a summary done in style, consult Toastyfrog's ever-hilarious guide on Western Religion in Japanese video games.

    ...and yes, we're reviewing on a 5 scale now.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    Ah yes, the...
    "<span class="spoiler"> congratulations, you just owned the boss and as a reward we've set up a random contradictory event involving Prier suddenly being strung up.</span>" That was a real 'winner'.

    Dracos
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Temple_Priestess @ June 04 2004,15:41)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    b) I've not played the game, but is smoking an integral part of the character of that character? If not, I don't see how this is some grand betrayal of artistic integrity.
    <span id='postcolor'>
    I think it's just ridiculous that it has to even *be* an issue. Are Japanese game players so much more mature than us that they can handle cigars and alcohol in their games and we can't? And crosses are removed in a game with religious themes? This country is nuts. We are too much about protecting the little childruuun and not offending anyone that we go to great lengths over silly things...*SIGH*[/quote]
    This country is nuts, but the ESRB and the whole mentality behind it is to be overcautious rather than to risk letting people with no consideration or understanding of the industry be making the decisions. So it's safer to take it as an issue, and deal with a simple rating hike, instead of giving the chance for some congressman to use it as an example that the ESRB isn't worth crud and that they have to censor the game industry since it can't police itself for the 'poor and helpless children'.



    to reduce posts, Rico:

    Really, my issue isn't that they shouldn't have taken it out or left it in, but that the editting job was rough. Edits occassionally need to be done, they have their reasons, but when something has a good chance of being front and center for a long time like that, they should've afforded redoing the sprite a bit and removing the strangely twitchy hand that left behind by the edits. Made it cleaner so that it's less noticible and less of a 'huh, does he have a hand disorder or something?'

    Dracos



  • madhtrmadhtr Full Member Full Members
    edited June 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ June 07 2004,12:36)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"to reduce posts[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You really should have edited it into your original post instead of double posting.
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